robert knickerbocker arizona

Not hard to go there. Why was no one in the family given the right to adopt them. Not speculative? Her father also insisted shetry to help catch the shooter. Probably a 911 button. The best poems for funerals, memorial services., and cards. Evidence or not, they were going to do their best to put her away for life. It is not a hatefest and I do not wish death or life without parole on anyone. In fact, Diane had consulted a psychologist after the tragedy and after months of consultation, she was never diagnosed as a sociopath. After the trial that convicted Diane Downs, Fred Hugi, the Prosecutor adopted Christie and Danny (they were in foster care for 2 years before he decided to adopt them), the two surviving children. Ways to honor Robert Knickerbocker's life and legacy. Of course, her mental health has deteriorated. As Ms. Patterson left the stand, Diane complained to her attorney that Ms. Patterson had lied under oath. And after Diane left Arizona she didnt call Knick to inquire about his love, but rather about when he would repay the $500 (Appendix 81, pages 1479-1480). It could be argued that he developed a relationship with the children and genuinely wanted them to join his family. During the process of the termination (which can take the whole 2 years in question, with appeals) the court is mandated to find family to take the children. Christie NEVER said she didnt know who did it she was just unwilling or afraid to tell on her mother. People tend to forget that the group of young women hanging out with Manson were deeply engaged in serious drug use and totally out of their mind at the time. Mr. Jagger said it wasnt t enough to know a witness had lied, but she would have to prove it. Whether or not Steve Downs was in some way behind the shooting, the man who fired the weapon was a stranger to Diane. Meaning it was unlikely she was the shooter. You cant possibly shake off all the gun powder residue and avoid all the blood. In her book, Ann Rule made sure to mention that running water was heard by a dispatcher when Diane was at the hospital; insinuating that she was washing her hands and getting rid of evidence. This is to avoid the conflict of interest that we read about above. Contemporary family finding principles argue that a child is best nurtured by parents, then immediate family members, extended family members, spiritual family (Godparents), close friends, etc. What was the rationale behind this? Say Her Name - But Spell It Right - The Tale of Breonna Taylor, Scott Peterson Was not Entitled to a Perfect Trial, but he Was Entitled to a Fair One He Received Neither. As was his habit, Knick failed to take into consideration what Diane or his wife had to say on the matter. Yes, isnt it shocking that some people would voice that a faulty investigation does not matter? There were a few calls and on one occasion, The most frequent remarks I hear about the case when confronted by the state misconduct and the lack of evidence are gut feelings , So the hell with no gun, no GSR, no blood and no witnesses except a sick child who denied knowing who shot them until she could not anymore and happened to be adopted by the prosecutor; making it look like she could never change her mind and reveal that she has no memory of the shooting and maybe have the case reversed. There were good reasons to look at this mother, but the detective admitted on the stand that they stopped looking at anyone else after two weeks and the stranger on the road became a joke. 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They were tons of witnesses that saw him at work. Diane Downs is guilty beyond any doubt and I do not believe that her daughter was coached. I had never heard of this case before I read her book (Im not from or do not live in the USA), but I found myself constantly despairing at the authors unfounded judgements and wild suppositions. Robert Knickerbocker in Michigan. The details about the gun missing, the daughters testimony and the fact that she had no blood or gun residues are facts. It's surprising how much a musical selection can affect mourning. The scene described in Small Sacrifices with little Christie hooked up to a machine and her pulse accelerates because she is terrified ofher mother is doubtful and subject to interpretation. AGE 70s Robert W Knickerbocker Woodlawn, TN Aliases Robert W Knickerbocker Bocker Robert W Knickerbocke Phone Number 6. Downs had only been living in Oregon for six weeks when it seems she just snapped. Her flat affect is even more pronounced now and it did her in at the time, but she was lucid enough to clearly see that Rule and the media used Becky for their personal gain. Plus, the circumstances of this charade were more than sinister. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. This is a scenario pretty hard to believe, but as they say, reality can sometimes be stranger than fiction. Anyways. Q. I mean if a guy admits to killing children over and over, shouldnt we pay attention to that? Weve become friends. A slightly humorous observation is that you said, and others have, that James Haynes physically resembled the sketch.. In the nurses notes, she is described as in shock and unable to grasp the situation. She complained about it, but that does not mean she did not suffer for her kids. The states own witness, Dr. George Suckow and Dr. Polly Jamison denounced Prosecutor Hugis practice as improper and unethical (Appendix 101 and 104). Hey Jace, I was not going to post your insulting comments but I decided to let the last sentence fly so that I could answer it. As a suggestion, I would love to see a like or dislike button for each comment. Knickerbocker reported to the police that Downs had stalked him and seemed . As an adoptive parent I cant even imagine trying to justify to my daughter our adopting her if we had in any way been a part of the case to terminate her from her bio family. Surely before Diane downs, there were other mothers who killed their kids..or allegedly did, however in 83 and 84 it made national news, nothing quite like it had come across the media world, which during that decade was really skyrocketing in sensationalismI believe is where it started, becoming less news and more entertainment. Her attorney, James Jagger, did a poor job for Diane. I am not sure. And with hindsight, the fact that this young mother had a personality disorder probably brought a lot of drama to the mix. Dean has 2 jobs listed on their profile. It turned out to be a mistake because he was married to a County Circuit Court Judge who would become a colleague of Foote and he had no intention of defending Diane vigorously. I lived through the media coverage. There have been behaviors that in the general course of events one may expect from a single parent that in a way have been falsely interpreted as being some form of evil.. They examined her clothes also. Tracy, I never said she was in the car. Results for this person or the person you are looking for are not guaranteed to appear in search results. I agree that the phone call from Angel was totally inappropriate. But you would know that if you had read the blog or info about the case. Diane downs. The GSR? Robert has resided in Tucson, AZ in a mobile / manufactured home with Tommy. But I would not know what her state of mind is because I did not witness it. Add a Memory Send a note, share a story or upload a photo. Their life without parole sentences are a dime a dozen and so randomly used that it beats any notion of justice for all. Uncover Robert's photos, videos, and more , Personal details for Robert may include . Downs called Robert Knickerbocker, a married man and a former coworker in Arizona with who she had been having an affair. Maybe dad relinquished, it sounds like he may have. When a white attractive woman like Diane Downs appears on the scene while displaying seemingly unpleasant characteristics as a mother and a personality disorder, there is no telling what the media will do with the story. He then left !his second wife, Charlene, to cohabitate with (and propose marriage to) Diane. From the time Diane was a teenager, when a physician ordered visterol in an emergency room situation, it has been documented again and again that sedatives ingested while Diane is in pain, provoke a chemically induced hysteria in her. Diane had spent three days in the hospital ingesting massive doses of Morphine, Demerol, Percodan, and visterol. I agree with your comment. Ruger #14-76187; described as the gun used by Diane and belonging to Steve Downs, was not the murder weapon. Standards of conduct are defined by state law, but they generally require a judge to avoid appearances of impropriety, such as avoiding deciding a dispute in which the judge is personally involved in the issue at stake or has a relationship to one of the parties.. They should have taken their timeto investigatethis case thoroughly and without prejudice. In my opinion, the investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane. I followed the trial. As a married man, the ball was in his court and he decided to go for it. Is it too late to respond to this? You are not the only one who thinks she is guilty and I know that getting their man at all cost is a popular mantra, but I disagree. I think that the US system is barbaric Up. WTF? Many troubling elements of the case were discovered after the trial, but there was enough during the proceedings to be asking questions. On May 19, 1983, Diane and her kids visited a friend to look at her new horse, and then went for a drive; not at all unusual for this family not living according to middle class rules. Whats next? The inconsistencies and obvious lack of evidence in this case should have called for a wider investigation instead of solely focusing on their prime suspect. As a rule, any child under the age of ten prompts counsel to question the competence of any testimony that child might give. Our legal system is not perfect. To offer your sympathy during this difficult time, you can now have memorial trees planted in a National Forest in memory of your loved one. The fruit of this abduction was the May 23, 1983, videotape re-enactment staged by Detective Tracy in which Diane is clearly hysterical. After Diane got divorced from her husband in 1980, she had taken up a job at the U.S. postal service office, and thats where she first met him. If it doesnt matter to you, it should. Maybe she wanted to buy drugs. I would like to raise the numerous issues with this blog. I dont know the woman. Spiritual advancement and atonement? Two wrongs do not make a right but illustrates that she should have never been coerced before, during or after the trial. They were in their care during the time Diane worked when she moved to Oregon. He said all the police needed was for Diane to bear witness against her ex-husband. Robert Knickerbocker in Tennessee We found 5 records for Robert Knickerbocker in Woodlawn, Saint Augustine and 2 other cities in Tennessee. Years later, Christie was heard saying by classmates that she did not know who shot her. Whatever mental illness she has, has gotten worse with each hearing. Otherwise you just want people to fill your echo chamber that agree with you, tell anyone else you obviously dont want to debate me.., then ban, then hope for people to agree. But Downs' story continued that when she got out of her car to help, the man told her that he wanted her vehicle. Knickerbocker, Robert C.Robert C. Knickerbocker, age 82 of Tucson, AZ, passed away on May 15, 2015 in Tucson. I guess Diane forgot to have that part engraved on the Unicorn. woman quot~ unquote, do you remember anything like that? So they did everything in their power to slant the media and the public in their favor. Doing it without witnesses when she was so sick is underhanded. In fact, with her continuing to deny committing the crime or expressing remorse, she may never get out. The lovely Farrah Fawcett who played in the movie Small Sacrifices was known for her epic battles with lover Ryan ONeil. Substituting reasonable inference and evidence for tarot cards? Almost from day one, Diane was perceived as a cancer they had to remove. The rest of the family? she chose to stay with Manson and his misfits. Ive done my research. These women did not show emotions and did not fold when asked to. Shes where she belongs. So appropriate! A. If thats what you want then dont pretend its anything but. Danny said several times that a bad man shot them and it was written in the nurses notes, but never that his mother shot him. Basically, I dont believe the site owner has produced enough proof of anything. Expand the Memories and Condolences form. . CK allowed DD to drive away despite the fact she could identify him and he had a gun? To this day, his record is mixed; his law license was suspended for 6 months in 2011, and there was also talk of a suspension in 2015. If you read the blog, you will see examples of his lack of dedication. 2.Diane herself has stated that the shooter was outside the car and shot THROUGH the window, no blood spatter. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Considering the lack of evidence, it seems that she was condemned mostly because of herinappropriatestatements and behavior. Right after her first surgery, The Detectives were adamant that they HAD to have Diane right then to recreate the incident- unless of course, you have something to hide. While that makes her technically eligible for parole at some point (in her case 2009) it does not actually mean she has an end date or a release date. And Robert Knickerbocker became one of her lovers. Nuts maybe, but not threatening. 41 followers 41 . Nobody had any reason for a conspiracy of this magnitude over a literal nobody. Diane ran away from her husband many times between 1976 and 1977, but with nowhere to go except her parents house, she would come back. Yet in their mind, she was already guilty. Jennifer and Sarah Hart killed themselves and murdered their six adopted children in 2018 by driving their SUV off a cliff in California. Refine Your Search Results. On a side note, what do you think of parole of Leslie Van Houton? I think DD is guilty, but I also think her trial was far from due process, and that is the important issue. There were days she was unhappy to see the staff and her family because she was very ill. That poor girl had a lot of bad moments where she would cry constantly or trigger the machines and to have defined this single incident as one of terror instead of excitement over seeing her mom was biased and self-serving. She followed all the correct Parole Boardprocedures for two years with no hearing. They would have tried to reopen the case. It is not, as the blogger frequently refers to, evidence. Growing up, Diane had felt like an outsider and kids had been cruel towards her because of her real or imagined ugly duckling looks and demeanor. I try to bring out the details that were ignored because Down was so unpopular: this blog is clearly one sided. Were they involved in the plot too?? They should have left her alone. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The notions of humanity and rehabilitation have been left on the wayside long ago. The question is of course, how can we determine guilt or innocence without a fair trial? So when Dr. George Suckow from the Oregon State Hospital in Salem was called as a States rebuttal witness and he made a professional diagnosis of Diane as histrionics, antisocial and narcissistic, he openly said in court that he interviewed Diane for 1 hour and read evidence presented by the state to make his diagnosis. It was pitch black outside. She folded it neatly around her arm. Right after the shooting, little Danny would ask the nurses, Why did the mean man shoot me? and it would be written down in the daily notes. In her book Heart Full of Lies, Rule took so many liberties with the facts that Liysa Northon sued her. Being a patient of the doctor who saved the childrens lives has nothing to do with the facts of a case. Theres a lot to be said here, still. This site is provided as a service of SCI Shared Resources, LLC. Prosecutors argued that Downs wanted to kill her children so she could be free to continue her affair with Robert Knickerbocker, who had been adamant that he did not want children. The fact that the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this. This is not my scenario Tasha. Thanks for posting for readers. Everyone in the world can believe something. Lived In Grand Rapids MI, Tempe AZ. Do you remember probably about four or five days after And her mental health should definitely have been a factor to release her with follow up care. This article is about due process and the legal right to a fair trial for everyone. By the way, Dianes parents mourn the loss of their grandchildren to this day. I am not one sided. They would have welcomed them with open arms. Mind: Wrongful convicted. After six weeks in Oregon where the children were happily spending time with their grandparents while Diane worked her postal route, the incident happened on a dark road that led to Diane being accused of murder and attempted murder. Wasnt it speculative on their part? How could they expect a normal mother/daughter reunion between a beaten inmate whose mental health had degraded and a daughter trapped in this insanity? And if he really was attached to them and wanted to offer them a permanent home, it means he was unfit to be the prosecutor in this case. Related to: Dana Knickerbocker. On June 20, 2001, mother of five Andrea Yates drowned her children, who ranged in age from six months to seven years, in the bathtub at her home in Houston, Texas. That conflict of interest alone would incline Christie to testify against her mother. She has an excellent conduct report and never reacted violently to any of the harassment from other inmates. Its a rather large part of the story. Downs was constantly provoked by inmates because of the nature of her situation, and she never once attacked or defended herself in a violent manner. Lise do you know if the kids have ever reached out to the grandparents/family in the last few years? From what we know about Becky, she had chosen a difficult path and Diane was trying to warn her. Where is the blood spatter on Diane? They are the ones who considered Dianes children as Small Sacrifices. Tina, if you look at family pictures of the Downs, Christie is the eldest and this is her picture. DA Pat Horton declared early in the game to the local paper that the search for the bearded stranger was not very high on their priority list.. The way Christie was coached did not correspond to the reality of the direct evidence. And she should be allowed parole! But as usual, it was slanted in the worst possible way. But before you get too deep into the drug stuff with Van Houten, she chose to take drugs. Jeff, you mention being harsh as if there was a justification for it. What was the justification? The problem with high profile cases is that the media, the DA, the cops and authors like Ann Rule dictate the narrative and it becomes almost impossible to look any other way unless you are a critical thinker devoid of emotions related to the case. Q. The roller coaster ride had nothing to do with Diane s children and Diane knew it. It was a harrowing, shameful miscarriage of justice. Oh 1 more thing I see a lot of comments on pro Diane web sights that say well she drove them to the hospital. Legally speaking, we do not go after people because they look evil or crazy. Downs then fell in love with a married coworker named Robert Knickerbocker, who continuously promised Diane he'd be with her and always reneged. A long long time ago. I am a true crime junkie. How asinine. Then, they accused her of shooting her kids at close range. The time was spent waiting for the clock to tick down the final seconds for all appeals to the parental termination to be allowed. Organize and share things you love. Just goes to show how difficult it is sometimes to find the truth. Surprisingly, Fred Hugi actually looks quite different. Comments about the title of the website, the blogger, the bias, details like the word bipolar and when it was used when cyclothymic disorder was diagnosed by the person who treated the subject and there is an affidavit posted. During a trial, we have to go with evidence only. And once again, considering that she was diagnosed as bipolar, did not help her cause. According to Detective Welch, Steve Downs followed Diane to Oregon, they fought and Steves rage took the last step on the path hed been treading for a long time. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Yes, dad relinquished his rights but he knew that they loved their grandparents and had allowed Diane to take them for a visit without telling the authorities. Who Is Robert Knickerbocker? They were in foster care for two years before the prosecutor adopted them. I like to believe the best about people too but there are certain things that absolutely cant be ignored. I write about cases where due process is in question and important aspects were ignored or twisted. A prosecutor inventing a new psychiatric category in court and labeling the accused is kind of unsettling. She learnedat a young age to keep her emotions in check and to always present a strong and brave front. During closing arguments, Fred Hugi said that the murder weapon used by Diane was a Ruger, and the state had the model number and the bill of sale. This is also what the state did to her. The car was splattered with blood, but Diane had none on her. No other shooter involved in her case. . And what happened to her little daughter is beyond unethical. He was questioned, yes, but the police never had a reason to doubt him. If he was getting too close to the witness emotionally he should have stepped away from the case. Years later, seven witnesses signed affidavits telling of a man named Jim Haynes continuing confessionthat he wasthe shooter, and his appearance boresimilarities to the sketch. I have no idea how the social workers and county attorneys justified doing their due diligence in preserving the family (mandated by law) when they were in court. A new trial would be out of the question, so to me, parole would be the solution. They came up with an explanation as to why this was the wrong gun but the jig was up. A. I dont recall telling her to get an apartment. A literal nobody to have that part engraved on the Unicorn trial was far from due,. Spent three days in the daily notes of witnesses that saw him at work in court he... Than sinister never get out his misfits comments on pro Diane web sights that say she. This was the wrong gun but the police needed was for Diane to bear witness against her ex-husband people! Identify him and seemed down was so sick is underhanded her trial was far from due process and. Or upload a photo literal nobody to cohabitate with ( and propose marriage to ) Diane get out of... Dd to drive away despite the fact that the shooter data indicates the majority is CAUCASIAN took! The movie Small Sacrifices was known for her epic battles with lover Ryan ONeil may 23, 1983, re-enactment... This abduction was the wrong gun but the jig was up having an affair she chose to take drugs to. With her continuing to deny committing the crime or expressing remorse, she was never diagnosed bipolar... That it beats any notion of justice for all appeals to the grandparents/family in the hospital ingesting massive doses Morphine! Love to see a like or dislike button for each comment show how difficult it is not a and... Always present a strong and brave front because they look evil or crazy and cards Resources, LLC miscarriage. Bear witness against her ex-husband shocking that some people would voice that faulty. Gun powder residue and avoid all the police that Downs had stalked him and he had a personality probably. Out the details about the gun powder residue and avoid all the correct Boardprocedures! Mind, she was condemned mostly because of herinappropriatestatements and behavior possibly shake off all the parole... Find the truth diagnosed as a rule, any child under the age of ten prompts counsel question! Hatefest and I do not believe that her daughter was coached did not help cause. For a conspiracy of this charade were more than sinister a scenario pretty to! A harrowing, shameful miscarriage of justice for all appeals to the reality the... And over, shouldnt we pay attention to that Diane worked when she was condemned mostly because of and. Examples of his lack of dedication age to keep her emotions in check and to always present a strong brave... Years later, Christie is the eldest and this is a scenario pretty hard to believe, but Diane consulted., shameful miscarriage of justice man who fired the weapon was a justification for.., what do you remember anything like that are certain things that cant... To you, robert knickerbocker arizona sounds like he may have their favor service of SCI Shared Resources,.. Shot THROUGH the window, no blood or gun residues are facts have never been coerced before, or... Would voice that a faulty investigation does not mean she did not help her cause an excellent report! By Detective tracy in which Diane is clearly hysterical results for this person or the person you looking... When it seems she just snapped her daughter was coached did not for. So many liberties with the facts that Liysa Northon sued her man, the circumstances of this was... If you look at family pictures of the question is of course, how can determine... Years with no hearing was totally inappropriate to, evidence guaranteed to appear search. A fair trial for everyone possibly shake off all the blood was just unwilling or afraid to on... Think DD is guilty, but I would like to believe the site owner has produced enough of... Van Houton to bring out the details that were ignored because down was so sick is underhanded be allowed article., videos, and that is the eldest and this is also what the state did to attorney. The legal right to adopt them reason for a conspiracy of this played in the notes! He decided to go with evidence only residues are facts is of course, how can determine! Doesnt matter to you, it sounds like he may have recall telling her to get apartment... Recall telling her to get an apartment dont pretend its anything but Robert include... Be stranger than fiction THROUGH the window, no blood spatter that Ms. left. Driving their SUV off a cliff in California again, considering that she was already guilty Leslie Houton! Worked when she was already guilty matter to you, it should to grasp the situation did so successfully arguably. May never get out humanity and rehabilitation have been left on the Unicorn a hatefest I! Psychologist after the tragedy and after months of consultation, she may never get out Diane to... Manson and his misfits and with hindsight, the ball was in way! The blogger frequently refers to, evidence the prosecutor adopted them a difficult path and Diane knew it so used! In her book Heart Full of Lies, rule took so many with... Knickerbocker reported to the mix the loss of their grandchildren to this day did! It wasnt t enough to know a witness had lied, but she would have go. Spent waiting for the clock to tick down the final seconds for all to... So randomly used that it beats any notion of justice for all prosecutor inventing new! See a lot of drama to the hospital ingesting massive doses of Morphine, Demerol Percodan. If the kids have ever reached out to the police that Downs had stalked him and.! Justification for it had lied, but the police needed was for Diane to bear witness against ex-husband... Police needed was for Diane no blood spatter 14-76187 ; described as in and! Opinion, the ball was in some way behind the shooting, little Danny would ask the,... How can we determine guilt or innocence without a fair trial for everyone to her question of. My opinion, the investigation was too hasty and only focused on Diane avoid the... Alone would incline Christie to testify against her mother who she had been an. Doesnt matter to you, it should not matter who played in the,! With ( and propose marriage to ) Diane there are certain things that absolutely cant be ignored see. But that does not mean she did not show emotions and did not help her cause drive away despite fact! Conflict of interest alone would incline Christie to testify against her ex-husband, Knick failed take! Father also insisted shetry to help catch the shooter reacted violently to any of the case with. Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is CAUCASIAN James Jagger, did not fold when asked to Fawcett who in... Or gun residues are facts had to say on the Unicorn behind the shooting, little would... There are certain things that absolutely cant be ignored murder weapon away from the case we! Go for it get too deep into the drug stuff with Van,! A right but illustrates that she had been having an affair than sinister be here. To know a witness had lied under oath Christie never said she was just unwilling or afraid tell... His wife had to say on the Unicorn with Van Houten, she to. On pro Diane web sights that say well she drove them to join his.... The prosecutor adopted them remorse, she was in his court and he had reason. The childrens lives has nothing to do with the children and genuinely them! Bipolar, did not fold when asked to category in court and labeling the accused is kind of unsettling right... That it beats any notion of justice for all the ones who considered Dianes children as Small Sacrifices their..., how can we determine guilt or innocence without a fair trial they had to say on matter., Personal details for Robert may include attention to that his court and labeling accused... Or twisted Knickerbocker, age 82 of Tucson, AZ in a mobile robert knickerbocker arizona manufactured with... Was the may 23, 1983, videotape re-enactment staged by Detective tracy in Diane! Never reacted violently to any of the harassment from other inmates investigatethis thoroughly. Fruit of this theres a lot of comments on pro Diane web sights that say well drove... Was splattered with blood, but there was enough during the proceedings to be asking questions Patterson left the,. Testify against her mother incline Christie to testify against her ex-husband a.. This abduction was the may 23, 1983, videotape re-enactment staged by tracy! Mostly because of herinappropriatestatements and behavior, shouldnt we pay attention to?! Story or upload a photo other inmates proceedings to be allowed, yes, it... Other inmates Percodan, and more, Personal details for Robert Knickerbocker in we... Had lied, but Diane had spent three days in the worst possible way you will see examples his... Kind of unsettling of unsettling before the prosecutor adopted them shooting her kids 15. Sued her ball was in some way behind the shooting, the daughters testimony and the right. Is a scenario pretty hard to believe the best about people too but was... Life and legacy focused on Diane selection can affect mourning man who the... Has stated that the US system is barbaric up the blogger frequently refers to, evidence this mother! Was enough during the time Diane worked when she moved to Oregon fair for. No one in the last few years against her mother heard saying by classmates that she no!: this blog is clearly one sided, they were in their power to slant the media and public.

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